Showing posts with label gay marriage. Show all posts
Showing posts with label gay marriage. Show all posts

Thursday, January 22, 2009

More on Obama and Gay Marriage

Video via Friar Zero in the comments:



It remains true that Obama is very much like Russia--a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma...

Saturday, January 17, 2009

Obama Supports Gay Marriage

Well, he did in 1996. I don't think he's changed his tune since then, though we'll see if he actually does anything about it.

Thursday, January 15, 2009

For some reason...

This post below has reminded me of this:


...which I find really, really disturbing. Free market, meet the seven deadly sins...

But in all seriousness...really??? "Life is short, have an affair." Really?

I suppose, taking the two posts together, the image of the Google Ad that asks "Is your husband gay? Give him this quiz to find out..." and this billboard...I don't know what to make of it--only that maybe gay marriage really isn't the thing threatening our "sacred institution" - perhaps the free market has a hand in it, or freedom in general. Perhaps gay men marrying women creates higher levels of divorce...

Just shooting these off the top of my head, though. Maybe I'm reading too much into this.

Monday, January 12, 2009

some good reading, listening, watching, etc.

Jon Schwenkler of Upturned Earth has an interesting piece up at Cutlure11 on Father Neuhaus. It's a nice, short piece that touches on the good and bad of the man. So many obits and reflection pieces abound right now, from harsh critiques by Andrew Sullivan, to plenty more graceful rememberances.

Jon and Scott Payne and Freddie deBoer have a dialogue on Same-Sex-Marriage at Scott's blog. Well worth the listen. (Freddie links there from his supposedly dormant blog...)

Tony Jones talks about gnosticism at his blog. He has a nice line: 'There's nothing secret about Christianity. There never has been. Let's make sure there never will be."

Mike Pontera thinks Obama, unlike his predecessors, has some "breathing space." We shall see...

And Max Socol has an interesting write-up on the question of cease-fire in Gaza. Jason Corley thinks we should "give war a chance" and while I think the phrasing is a little on the brash side, (though clever) the general idea that Israel ought to finish what it starts is certainly a good one. Different perspectives are always good to have...especially when it is not the ends, but the means that are in question...

Max:
Hamas may ultimately be destroyed by a Gaza takeover. But long after they're dead, it will be Israel that has to live with a new occupation.

It's therefore in our interest to make the ceasefire workable, before a messy invasion. Israel ought to concede to allowing Hamas to maintain oversight of its borders, alongside Israeli forces on their respective border, and international forces along the Egyptian border. I don't know what harm there could be in such a concession, as long as non-Hamas monitors still have access to everything coming in and out. And in exchange for this concession, Israel can demand that international forces be stationed within Gaza, rather than Egypt. Egypt, (which has nearly as much of an interest in concluding this mess, as it is nothing but a daily public relations disaster for Mubarak) for its part, should exert serious pressure on Hamas to accept this trade. And if it is unable to do so, Egypt should accept a multinational force in the Sinai, as a good faith gesture to make up for Hamas's intractability.

In exchange for the total cessation of rocket fire from Gaza, Israel should agree to a formalized schedule for lifting the blockade. This is in any case in Israeli interests, as many have pointed out that miserable conditions in Gaza have done nothing to damage Hamas, and may in fact have strengthened the organization.
Jason:

The message is a clear one. This is the price you pay when groups like Hamas are elected. This is the price terrorist organizations pay when you endanger the lives of citizens of other countries. The lessons and results may be more binding and constructive then permanent evacuations or cease fires that only secure the status quo and, ironically enough, contributes and guarantees more suffering and death in the future.

The region deserves peace and the people of Gaza and Israel deserve to live quietly and securely. I think its time we give war a chance.

It's hard to say what will actually achieve peace. I do hope Israel secures Gaza at least to the point that a lift of the blockade will become possible. I hope, also, that Egypt will find some way to clamp down on smuggling over their borders--not bread, but bombs and rockets and machine guns.

Monday, January 5, 2009

Strengthening marriage

Andrew responds to Larison's response to Conor. (Yes, there's a lot of responding going on out there. You can also read a pretty good post by Joe Carter on this, also a response to Conor, which Scott responds to here). In any case, here's Sullivan:
I think allowing gay couples to marry does strengthen the institution, because it ensures that everyone in a family has access to the same civil rites and rights, and so the heterosexual marriages are as affirmed as effectively as the gay ones. (It is not my experience that the straight siblings and families of gay people feel their marriages affirmed by excluding some of their own.) By removing the incentive for gay people to enter into false straight marriages, which often end in divorce or collapse, wrecked childhoods and betrayed spouses, heterosexual marriage is also strengthened. And the practical alternative to marriage equality - civil unions for straights and gays - presents a marriage-lite option for everyone that clearly does threaten traditional marriage in a way that gay marriage never could.
This is a good take on the subject, and quite close to my own, though I would also advocate stricter divorce laws and other mechanisms to increase marriage success rates. I would also argue that any conservative who has the time to argue endlessly against gay marriage probably ought to be spending that time finding ways to save marriage in general--the culture at present is drifting toward marriage failure. Gay marriage likely won't help or hinder that, so long as our society at large, including not only divorce laws, but also cultural attitudes toward marriage and commitment, remains as shallow and hedonistic as it is now.

This is greatly inflamed by the media, which glorifies sex and scoffs at commitment. There's no good way to change this, as we have a lovely little thing in our country known as free speech. However, as I've argued before, redesigning our communities to be more family friendly, walkable, and connected and then localizing and re-valuing our community institutions that teach our kids their values (like schools) could all go a long way toward creating a better value system in this country.

Where are we now, as a civilization? We have forgotten our history. We live between "anything goes" and "who cares?" in a sort of gluttonous apathy, fueled by disconnectedness from our larger family units and a love of materialism. We are not taught that it takes hard work to sustain a marriage. We are not taught that monogamy is natural, and while difficult, the far better approach to relationships. We may be told this, by our parents (so many of whom turn out to be hypocrites) or our pastors (also, lots of hypocrites there...my best friend in high school had a pastor for a dad, and his parents got divorced. In fact, out of all my old friends, my parents are almost the only couple still together...) But being told something and being taught something are not the same.

Without a larger community to fall back on and to be held accountable to, we become nihilistic and detached. I think Pearl S. Buck sums it up:
"The lack of emotional security of our American young people is due, I believe, to their isolation from the larger family unit. No two people - no mere father and mother - as I have often said, are enough to provide emotional security for a child. He needs to feel himself on in a wold of kinfolk, persons of variety in age and temperament, and yet allied to himself by an indissoluble bond which he cannot break if he could, for nature has welded him into it before he was born."
Do you see what I mean? We need a wider net. My mom comes from a family of eight siblings, and when I was younger I was constantly surrounded by family. We ended up moving (several times) and as I grew into those restless, rebellious years I had virtually no (extended) family to speak of.

Which led to a great deal of rebellion on my part, I think. It would have been harder to face all my uncles and aunts, cousins, grand parents, etc. than simply my parents. But I didn't have to. We'd cut ourselves off.

So as a society, as conservatives, the point should be finding ways to change the world to enforce family, connectivity, anti-materialism, and love. Gay marriage does no harm to any of these things. If anything, it strengthens society because it incorporates the non-mainstream into the mainstream. It helps settle people down.

More on this later...

Friday, December 19, 2008

Quote of the Day

If I cannot pray with Rick Warren, I realize, then I am not worthy of being called a Christian. And if I cannot engage him, then I am not worthy of being called a writer. And if we cannot work with Obama to bridge these divides, none of us will be worthy of the great moral cause that this civil rights movement truly is.

~Andrew Sullivan

Scott Payne agrees with Sullivan's conclusions, arguing that "Divisiveness breeds its own and perpetuating stereotypes about those that oppose you only provides fodder for the perpetuation of the stereotypes you seek to address."

I was having this discussion with my wife last night actually. I argued that the gay activist movement had pushed this marriage thing too hard, and she said that while she agreed that it wasn't likely to move very far very fast, that the only way to really get anything done was to keep protesting, keep making noise, and not let the movement die out, or become too passive.

I didn't have an argument against that, though I still feel that the initial, short-term effects of overselling the gay marriage idea is more pain for the homosexual community--like here in Arizona, where the voters have decided to amend the State Constitution to legally define marriage as between a man and a woman.

Er, one man, and one woman. Gotta be careful with those definitions these days...

Essentially where my wife and I do agree is that nothing major will happen until the older generations die out and the newer, more open-minded generations take their place. Think how many more young conservatives support gay marriage than a decade ago, after all...think how much more support there is amongst the youth of today than the youth of yesterday.

Who said that--that most good ideas simply have to wait until their opposition dies out before they can be implemented? I can't recall, but it's very true, and I think we have decades to go before gay marriage becomes a national right in this country. I hope I'm wrong.

Thursday, December 18, 2008

Sullivan v Carter

Carter responds to Sullivan:

I’ve been on record as supporting a form of civil unions for over four years. In fact, in November 2004 I wrote about it on my former blog. I noted that Dr. James Dobson and Focus on the Family Action, supported a bill in Colorado that would facilitate certain contractual obligations or legal arrangements for any two "unmarried persons who are excluded from entering into a valid marriage under the marriage laws of this state." I too supported the bill and believe that an expanded form of the proposed reciprocal-beneficiary contracts is the model for civil unions iin America.

Where Sullivan and I likely differ, however, is on the question of who should be allowed to participate in such civil unions. To me the civil unions should cover a broad range of domestic situations, such as two elderly sisters who share a home or a widowed parent of an adult child who has Down’s syndrome or other potentially disabling condition. Such legal protections should be completely desexualized and open to any two adults who desire to form a contractually dependent relationship.

Well, it's a novel idea. Personally, I like this a lot. I would just add the libertarian caveat that we do away with state-sponsored marriage altogether and replace it with, well, this idea. Then you can take your civil union paper down to whatever priest or pastor or rabbi you might occasionally visit and get hitched, or married, or whatever you want to call it. Two consenting adults--that's the qualifier.

Now go love each other...

Monday, December 8, 2008

Civil Unions for Everybody

Just more reason, in my mind, to abolish State-sanctioned marriage altogether, give out civil unions to adult partners, and leave marriage to the Church. Larison, in his denunciation of Meachem, writes:
The heart of Meachem’s argument does not bear much scrutiny, and we have not even come to the question of how entirely divorced Meachem’s entire argument is from a Christian understanding of the purpose of marriage. Procreation is an important part of that purpose, and joining two people from different sexes in complementary relationship is another, but beyond that it is a vocation to unite oneself to a person radically different from oneself. The uniting of complementary opposites as a type of the unity between Christ and His Church is one of the mystical meanings of marriage. The Christian conception of marriage is of two people joined into one flesh, the full expression of which is a child. Nowhere in the “great Judeo-Christian tradition” that Meachem supposedly takes so seriously is there support for his argument.
So you see, on a theological basis this will never, ever be resolved. It simply won't. The Bible forbids homosexuality, eating pork, masturbation, and hundreds of other outdated things, and people will focus on that and on the notion that marriage is solely for procreation (the logical conclusion being we should not be allowed to marry even if we are straight if we don't plan on having kids) and not on the more compelling Biblical truths like love and redemption and sacrifice and holiness.

So give marriage over to the Churches, universalize civil unions, and be done with it.

Tuesday, December 2, 2008

Is Obama a bigot?

Much has been made recently of the passage of Proposition 8 in California, nullifying the recent court decision to permit same-sex marriage. Now, I am a supporter of gay marriage for many reasons, not the least of which is my belief in the family unit and the societal importance in bringing the homosexual community into the mainstream. We should afford our fellow citizens basic equal rights. It will make for a stronger culture and a stronger nation. It is cruel to deny the foundation of marriage to adults who love one another. That's what I think. Others disagree, and they are welcome to disagree.

There are those, like the Westboro Baptist Church who are most certainly comprised of bigots. They protest at the funerals of soldiers and say that America has brought about the deaths of our brave young men and women through our lax moral code, our acceptance of gays, etc. They hoist signs that say "God Hates Fags." Just check out their website. It is a crash course in hatred and bigotry.

I doubt I'll find much argument on that point.

But a much larger swath of America disagrees with me about same-sex marriage. Many moderates, religious or otherwise, think that marriage is sacred and that it is defined by the union of one man and one woman. (I take issue with both points, citing divorce rates as one major flaw in the argument, but that is neither here nor there...)

One such opponent of gay marriage is our own President-elect, Barack Obama, often described as "the most liberal Senator in the United States Senate" or "in the history of mankind" or something to that effect. Not liberal enough, apparently, Barack Obama has made it very clear that he does not support gay marriage, but does support gay rights.

Is this like saying, "I support civil rights for black people, but not black marriage"? Or should I not touch that with a ten-foot pole?

In any case, the hue and cry out of the gay activist scene now is that bigotry brought about the passage of Proposition 8. Only bigots voted for it. This begs the obvious question: If bigots are the only ones opposing gay marriage (and no argument of tradition or religion has any merit) than does our new President-elect qualify as a bigot?

You tell me. Is Barack Obama a bigot for not supporting gay marriage? Or is it a more complicated issue? Once we start using such black and white language, the obvious flaws in this reasoning become apparent. After all, if Obama is a bigot, then how do we describe the members of Westboro Baptist Church? Do we begin to water down our words when we start to use them overmuch? Or do we hold all accountable equally?

Tuesday, November 25, 2008

Quote of the day

"Ultimately, I believe that marriage will be strengthened if less people marry. This is a counterintuitive claim. But given the challenge inherent in matrimony, it stands to reason that there won't be as many couples truly compatible with marriage, in comparison to the numbers of people who married when marrying was simply something you had to do....My preferred vision of marriage involves a culture that approaches it more slowly, more cautiously, and with a greater appreciation of what marriage really entails. A stronger institution of marriage is one that has less frivolous and ill-considered marriages. (For those who are uncomfortable with the notion of less married couples in our society, I can think of many thousands of Americans who are desperate to join the franchise, if given the opportunity. But this is controversial.)"

Freddie deBoer, at Culture11

Friday, November 21, 2008

Dreher and Jones